Thread by @MarigaThoithi

A conversation with a friend got me thinking about the potential gendered effect on savings and investments that our current dating structure creates.

*SHORT THREAD*

Very few couples have real conversations about finances when they're dating even when it gets serious. We wait for a ring before really talking about money. We're guarded about what we earn and what we spend.

It sounds good to keep your financial details to yourselves and it feels like you're protecting yourself but in many times you're just screwing yourself over over a longer period.

We're not very honest about financial expectations and we set ourselves up for failure. We men are especially not forthcoming about our financial expectations.

One reason may be because we don't have any financial expectations for relationships. You're aware of the common relationship financial arrangement which is that you'll pay for 99% of things and you don't expect things to change

Or you may want financial contributions in your dating life from the lady in your life but you don't know how to ask for it because it's something you've never learnt how to do and society has never allowed you to express.

So you get into the relationship with expectations that perhaps they would offer to foot some bills when you're dating- restaurants, events, picnics, holidays etc but it never really happens

You pay for your dates and social events and holidays but you also many times help in when she needs money and she's short, when she needs to do house shopping... You find yourself doing it.

She either asks for it or it's implied. Relationships have unspoken expectations and financial ones are one of them. Why don't you say no? Because the bill comes and she doesn't reach for it (repeat)

You guys plan to go for an event, she suggested it, when you get to the gate, she doesn't make an effort to reach into her purse and waits for you and you pay.. This eventually determines the relationship's financial trajectory because no one ever talks about it

Most times the arrangement works. Works is a strong word. Let's just say most times, that's the way it is and we're used to it as men.

There are a growing number of women who do split bills but those are still few and though we acknowledge their contribution, this thread isn't for them 😂

If you feel attacked,I'm not sorry 😂

You do sometimes have discussions around Finance , vaguely around you wanting to save and invest. She supports it. She tells you that she supports your desire to check your spending and use your money more wisely and is glad that you're saving for your joint future

There's only one problem with this. It's verbal support. Since you're young and foolish, your biggest luxuries are entertainment related and suggestions are always made for things but support is given once in a while which should count for the next few months..

I know of friends who would never pay for anything and they're not badly off. They're earning pretty good Nairobi salaries. They say that they won't spend their money on a man who might leave them any day 😂😱😭

They say that their money is for saving and investing. They're honest about that and when I ask about the fairness of the situation, they say that they didn't ask for money to be spent on them 😭😂😂😂

There are others who don't think this way but still don't financially contribute to the dating expenses at all .

What's the financial benefit of dating, to a man in this commonly accepted dating scene? (Assuming you're both living in different houses)

What's the financial benefit of dating, to a man in this commonly accepted dating scene? (Assuming you live together, if you're still meeting all major expenses on your own)

As a man, the dating structure ensures that you have many men with much less money to save or invest because of the cost of a relationship.

I had never thought of it, that way.

Dating and friendships have the same gendered expectations when it comes to money and spending so meeting your S/O and meeting your friends =increased expenses. When you think of the amount of money you spend on both of these each month, you start to realise the problem.

Your entertainment each month around your girlfriend and friends each month comes up to maybe 10,20, 30K a month each month or more. This expense continuously on men may mean that they have significantly less left to save compared to their S/O.

Keep dating for a few years and even if your girlfriend changes, the structure remains the same and you have a bunch of men saving less, spending more while their S/Os can save, invest and do much more with their money.

If you think of that over 5-10 years cumulatively and look at men in general in this situation, how big is a number would it add up to?

Dating is an expense (outside the joy it may give you) and there's heavy financial pressure when it comes to dating.

The payment or non payment of bills by women had little to do with money because I have friends whose S/Os earn equal to or more than what they earn but make no financial effort towards the relationship. It's a matter of principle, habits, attitudes..

I listen to men who are married talk about marriage and one of the most common complaints I hear are about money.

Older women I know, keep the money they earn secret and say that they're keeping it aside for a rainy day. It's supported by comments like "If a woman is spending/ hiding it, it's always for a good reason or for the family."

I know men in their 40s in heavy financial pressure because of marriage with wives who are professionals at their level. They all tell me to "wait until I get married" to know that all women want is money.

Very many men are quietly frustrated. You think of the next date or social event and you immediately start thinking about how much money it's going to cost.

If they won't chip in financially when you're dating then don't lie to yourself about them contributing when you're married. The ring won't change much.

I know of older men living in houses they can't afford, schools they can barely pay for because of pressure from their S/O and they don't feel they can do much about it. They have S/Os who work but make it clear that they expect the man to foot everything

They're not physically forced to do anything but married men tell you of emotional blackmail and pressure and even I have experienced the coercive power of a woman who is insistent upon something. You're left with very few options for your relationship happiness

We need to start having these tough conversations as men. Tell her what you earn but get the courage to ask her what she earns, too. Ask her how she deals with bills in relationships and dating. Ask her when you're still getting to know each other when you're less guarded

Men find themselves paying for all dates, events, holidays,sometimes her nails, her hair, helping her out with monthly shopping and short loans(which will not be repaid) when she's in a financial fix. They eventually start seeing dating as a financial burden,which it sometimes is

This is how you get to 40 and you start telling younger men that all women want is money.

Dear gentlemen,

Do you believe in dating within your tax bracket?

It sounds sad but I feel that dating as is is ONE of the impediments to young men saving and investing more than their female peers.

There are more reasons including alcohol,poor spending habits etc but having to work like that through one's dating life(20-30)as a man means that you'll invest way less than your S/O at the same age.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me but hey, let's have this conversation

If I never paid for dates or events or holidays and had help in my house shopping and all other expenses, wouldn't I have been a happy and wealthy man! 😂

How much does dating cost you each month on your S/O including dates, events, gifts, holidays etc?

and @theMagunga you can come read quietly and even share without quoting if you so wish 😂

If she's always talking about saving, You also want to save too! 😂

You're not spending that money on her because you don't have anything else that you could do with that money.

If she's earning money, no matter how little, she can contribute.

Additional insight into this conversation.

#MasculinityKE

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by @SDMaundu view original on Twitter

How relationships and finances make men feel 😂😂😂

#MasculinityKE

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by @MarigaWangombe view original on Twitter

Keep on spending your money while they save for your joint future together, you break up, she keeps the money, your next S/O is also saving for your future together, you break up. You're still the one spending money 😂 Tuchanuke wasee 😂

If you feel you're getting the raw financial end of a relationship, Zusha!

She might get mad and it might even feel emasculating but what use is a relationship if you feel that it's draining you? Stop being scared of how you will look or how she'll react. Start having this convo