Thread by @me_ijinsan

Hey @OfficialSPGB, let’s have a talk.

Venezuela is socialist. I’ll tell you why.

First of all, I find it odd that you don’t even know what socialism is. You seem to be confusing it with communism, which isn’t what Marx envisioned in his theory of history. You see, he believed that after the fall of Capitalism, socialism will be attained by the working class.

But wait a minute, I thought socialism and communism is the same? Common property, council democracy, and labor vouchers, right? Wrong. To Marx, socialism is the process of society moving towards communism.

Think of socialism as the application of Marxism, and communism as the final, ultimate result. The world being stateless, classless, and propertyless.

You see, socialism still has a state. It is during socialism that it slowly withers away. The state, however, is controlled by the working class.

As the capitalist system continues to devolve, class distinctions deteriorate and when the state controls all the means of production, a shift will occur from political rule to one to coordinate economic activity, or the needs of society.

Because the state will cease to be a political system of control or a hierarchy of class, it would cease to be a state in the Marxian sense of the word. When the state is completely dissolved, Marx would conclude that only then is the society a communist one.

Now let’s look at Venezuela.

In 1999 the Fifth Republic Movement, led by Hugo Chavez, established the current Bolivarian government, led by Maduro. The movement was extreme left-wing populism and after control of the government lay in the hands of Chavez, it became the United Socialist Party of Venezuela.

The vein of Marxism that Chavez instituted was Bolivarianism; characterized by popular democracy, anti-imperialism, economic independence, redistribution based on equity, and an end to political corruption. This was laid out in to the 1999 Constitution.

Chavez would later integrate in democratic socialism, a form of socialism that calls for democratic institutions in the economy, into the Venezuelan structure.

Democratic socialism is the idea that Capitalism is not only incompatible with democracy, but that liberty can only be achieved through a socialist society.

Huh. Sounds awfully familiar, right? Democratic socialism just happens to be a central pillar of Marxism. Odd. But I thought Venezuela isn’t socialist?

Venezuelan economy is completely dependent on oil. Without it, the country would be nothing. Chavez started nationalizing the oil industry, introducing greater and greater control via regulation as the country increased dependence from 80% to 95% oil exports in 2012.

He did this partially through the Hydrocarbons law, which stated that at minimum, 51% of Venezuelan petrol must be owned by the Venezuelan government and increased taxes on foreign competitors in order to sell more Venezuelan oil.

He then used these funds to support political projects, such as the Bolivarian Missions.

Huh. Sounds like the state owning the economy and in charge of most of the wealth of the country, as well as most of the modes of production, right? But I thought Venezuela isn’t socialist?

The Bolivarian Missions were social programs that were designed to help elevate the poor of Venezuela. It covered education, medical coverage, and food, all for free, as well as environmental concerns, housing, and science.

Huh. Sounds like the state redistributing in order to elevate the poor into a single, uniform proletariat class, right? But I thought Venezuela isn’t socialist?

A recent 2015 study done on the missions showed that only 10% of Venezuelans benefited from these policies, and of this, almost half were not affected by poverty. I wonder who benefited from these projects?

When Chavez was elected in 1998, over 100,000 corporations were started up by the proletariat and received assistance from the government. By 2006 a study showed that HALF of these were improperly functioning or were created fraudulently to access public funds.

Chavez instituted the policy of Consejos Communales for local government fund distribution. These councils made up of area families controlled around 30% of state funds.

3,500 communal banks were established to help and gave out loans to fund community projects such as construction and recreational activities.

Huh. Sounds like democratic socialism, where needs are identified on a local level and collective funds are distributed to meet them, right? But I thought Venezuela isn’t socialist?

In 2003 the government also instituted price controls on 400 basic foods to counter inflation. They also instituted production quotas in 2009.

These policies would end up contributing to the rising crisis of inflation and food shortages. He did this by ordering the military to seize control of food processing plants and forcing them to produce at full capacity.

Huh. Sounds to me like the state trying to produce to meet the basic needs of the collective society, right? But I thought Venezuela isn’t socialist?

Chavez also nationalized major farms, saying that ‘land is not private, but the property of the state.’ What happened to these farm lands? Many reports that they stand there untended, unworked. Supermarkets? Shelves often empty.

Shipping ports? 120,000 tons of food spoiled rotten due to no one to move it. To be clear, Chavez passes the ‘Law of the Land’, which stated landholdings were illegal and were to be given to families who needed land to grow food.

Chavez used this program to give back the farmlands to those who needed to grow food. By 09 the government had redistributed nearly 2.7 hectares of idle land to 180,000 peasant families. The Penal Code also de-criminalized the occupation of idle private lands by landless peasants

Huh. Sounds to me like awarding property based on need, as well as taking landlords and rent out of the equation. But right, Venezuela isn’t socialist. Uh huh.

Let’s see what industries Chavez nationalized: the cement industry, telephone and electric utilities, steel, shopping malls, food plants, coffee plants, and banks, not to mention the previously stated oil industry, which is MOST of the Venezuelan economy.

Huh. Most of the economy that drives the Bolivar and essential needs of the Venezuelan people in the hands of the state for control and the redistribution according to need? But I thought Venezuela isn’t socialist?

How about foreign trade, as socialism is dependent on self-sufficiency? It is rated 179 out of 185 countries in foreign trade. Lots going out, not much coming in.

Huh. I thought self-sufficient society was a hallmark and requirement of a socialist society? But I guess Venezuela isn’t socialist.

The problem with your argument, @OfficialSPGB, is that you have to twist definitions in order to be right. Don’t feel bad, this is a trait of Marxists. You use elastic dialectics to avoid confrontation and ad hoc hypothesis to avoid owning up to any of the falsities of Marxism.

Your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness. No one sees you as an expert on socialism, even though you have that silly blue checkmark by your name. This is why there are so many offshoots of Marxism: no one can agree on what anything means, because it is all left vague

So, keep twisting definitions. In doing so you only expose yourself; Marxism is a pseudo-socioeconomic theory, and the more you do it, the more it becomes so.

And all you Marxists that come after me saying 'OH YOU GOT THIS TOTALLY WRONG', I didn't get this from any of you, I got this straight from Marx.

@KalebPrime may correct me if I got anything on Venezuela wrong though.

So pop quiz class:

Venezuela is a _________ country.

Happy #Marx200

S I K E

For anyone keeping score: