tony nog Profile picture
Sep 24, 2018 23 tweets 7 min read Twitter logo Read on Twitter
1) Thread - Corbyn, #Brexit & Labour democracy - let's just be honest, it's dead

Saddened but not surprised by this reversal by Labour Leadership.

Labour members overwhelmingly support a People's vote, and they have been comprehensively overridden

#LabourConference2018
2) so, full disclosure, I'm not a Corbyn fan but I was absolutely prepared to "lay down arms" if something approaching a pro people's vote motion came out of last night's horsetrading. It didn't. A fudge came out, and that fudge was hardened into a pro brexit position
3) so what happened, and what does it mean? Quick summary
Well, clearly there is a growing pro remain/people's vote position in Labour - 9 out of 10 members support it & 150 CLPs sent in pro vote motions.

That's a staggering number and shows the concern of members
4) we should also remember that Corbyn was elected on a party democracy ticket, he would let the members decide policy as part of a general move towards wider & deeper democracy. This is a key point, deeper democracy is supposed to be at the heart of Corbyn's psyche
5) it's also important to point out that a People's Vote may or may not be tactically unsound for Labour, a Blairite plot or a gift for UKIP, in the end you either trust the democratic process & the wishes of the members, or you only want democracy when you like the outcome
6) it *does not matter* if the People's Vote is a bad idea (it's not, it's the most likely way to reverse Brexit), if the overwhelming majority of Labour members support it at conference, it should be policy, period, no ifs or buts. If it isn't, Labour is not a democracy
7) So what happened? Last night there was a 6 hour session to thrash out a "composite motion" between the members motion & the Leadership's
The 1st point should be - why any debate at all? Why wasn't the deeply supported #peoplesvote simply polished up and published?
8) if the voice of the members is supreme why was the (narrowly supported) Leadership #Brexit position given the same priority as the members one (as we'll see, even that didn't happen)?
Why was Starmer debating for 6 hours something so clearly supported?
9) in any case a "compromise" was reached, though it wasn't really a compromise. The Leadership position of pushing for a pro brexit election was made the priority, and then if that GE didn't happen, a #PeoplesVote would be an option on the table
10) crucially, the original text said "a vote on the #Brexit terms" meaning no Remain option. In the late hours the #PeoplesVote campaigners got this removed, the implication being it would now be a full vote with an option for Remain.
Unfortunately, it was only an implication
11) now, being honest, this was still a weak & fudged motion.
A GE would take priority, and Labour would fight that GE on a *pro brexit* ticket, this is absolutely clear from McDonnell. Only if a GE didn't happen would a people's vote be considered.
All in the next 6 months(?)
12) this is an important point.
We have 6 months then we crash out of the EU, deal or no deal. This is a legal certainty
The only options are we get a deal, revoke A50 or get an extension, which will be hard to get.
There's no time for gameplaying
13) but in any case McDonnell removed this morning even that sliver of hope for a #PeoplesVote - there would be *no* option to remain on the ballot, the implication that there would be was just that. The Labour Leadership had taken the final steps to override the members
14) now, of course, there'll be a debate in conference, and perhaps the option to remain will prevail. And there has been a shift in policy. But the fact remains that to all intents & purposes the wishes of the members are being ignored by the Labour Leadership
15) McDonnell was doing the rounds again saying "what we want is a GE so people can debate the options on #Brexit"

Who is "we" in this sentence? Not the members, they want a people's vote & an option to remain. What McDonnell should be saying is "What I & Jeremy want..."
16) apologies for the length of this thread but here is the summary. The following is what we can without any doubt glean from these events, it's grim reading for Labour supporters
17) I) Corbyn & McDonnell are firmly fixed in a pro-#brexit position. They want the option to negotiate their own "cake & eat it deal" but have absolutely no interest in any pro remain option & will fight it by any means necessary.
Many of us knew this already
18) ii) the Labour Leadership is not interested in party democracy or the wishes of its members unless those wishes align with its own. It pays more respect to Leave Voters (who are mostly Tory) than to its own members
19) iii) the Labour Leadership is contemptuous of the party process. There was a lengthy debate in the formal composite forum to take out a "no remain option" vote clause, and then McDonnell toured the studios to put it back in again.
This is simply shocking.
20) IV) the Labour Leadership is, again,opting out of #Brexit. You cannot "campaign" for a GE & it's unlikely to happen. If it does Labour will offer largely what the Tories are offering & which the EU will also reject
But most likely Labour will continue to play a passive role
21) v) any attempts by the membership, MPs or others to force Labour into an active #Brexit role will be quashed by the Leadership, by any means necessary, even if that means being publicly dismissive of those members
22) vi) there is *no* remain position in the Labour Leadership. This needs to be emphasized. Even if it is shown that Labour seats are not at Risk, that members overwhelmingly support Remain or that any Brexit will damage it's voters there is zero appetite for Remain
23) now, the above is harsh but fair. Labour Leadership is, or at least aspires to be, a semi dictatorship.
Corbyn & McDonnell are authoritarians at heart.
The membership position is not supreme or even equal to their position in their eyes

So much for a new kind of politics

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More from @tony_nog

Oct 7, 2018
1) It's still Hard #Brexit - thread
Couple of things to point out as we head to "Canada ++++"

A) it suits the EU as a fallback but
B) as far as the UK is concerned, its still damaging, draining, hardest of hard Brexits & nothing to be celebrated
Here's what we've forgotten
2) firstly, yes the EU27 would prefer we remain & if not they'd prefer a close arrangement - but at this point they'd settle for the island of Ireland being protected & an orderly exit

They're not going to save us from ourselves

They can minimise the damage of UK leaving SM
3) so let's not kid ourselves that the EU27 will make sure we get a good deal or one that has minimal damage to the UK, they will look after each other, they have to.

All the ++ means is cooperation in certain areas, not untold riches or a "special deal"
Read 5 tweets
Sep 29, 2018
1) Thread - Labour, dodgy right Brexit activities & missed opportunities
Today I was a bystander in a discussion between @OwenJones84 & @JolyonMaugham around tweeting on Vote Leave's illegal spending, which I think is part of a bigger missed opportunity on #Brexit for Labour
2) Lets just be honest - the Tory party & #Brexit has always been dodgy. Charlatans who misled people given high government office and all that. But the last few months have had some significant revelations of dubious practices, only one of which was Vote Leave illegal spending
3) I wont't even get a complete list here but some highlights are:
- Cambridge Analytica "harvested accounts" scandal
- Links with AIQ & the Trump campaigns
- Vote Leave overspending
- Lack of clarity on Leave.EU funding
Read 15 tweets
Sep 29, 2018
1) Some excellent ideas being developed here by @RichardElwes and @sjwrenlewis

Will just add a few thoughts on the #Brexit trap for either party

There are no good #Brexits economically but neither are there politically, for either party
@RichardElwes @sjwrenlewis 2) (sorry, 2 "either"s there....)
As with Richard, this is not about my beliefs but public perception
Soft Brexit = Betrayal/Vassal state portrayal from Leavers, instant political cost

Hard Brexit = economic cost, which obviously leads to political cost in short order
@RichardElwes @sjwrenlewis 3) the public are fickle, and even if for example lucrative Free Trade Deals were out there the leaver vote is as likely to be more protectionist in nature.
Many leavers may see Free trade as "everyone else buying our stuff, with no downside on our industry in return"
Read 6 tweets
Sep 28, 2018
1) Corbyn, control & democracy
The attempt to crush the #PeoplesVote initiative from Corbyn's team should ring alarm bells for anyone who values democracy
& transparency, inside Labour or outside. He is and will always be an authoritarian

#Lab18
2) you can argue back and forth on whether a #PeoplesVote is strategically good, bad or horrendous for Labour, or that Corbyn's offer to work with the Tories on #Brexit is "political theatre". The fact is the new Labour position is the exact opposite of what the members wanted
3) the reality is, 150 local parties submitted motions and the overwhelming majority supported a people's vote with an option to remain.

That has somehow completely transformed into a Labour offer to compromise the 6 tests for a Tory led Brexit
Read 6 tweets
Sep 28, 2018
1) Was determined to back off Labour & Corbyn this week & support them going forward on #Brexit

But now this, following Corbyn's speech.

Corbyn's team want Brexit. They don't want to listen to the members on a #PeoplesVote & now it's been raised, they are switching position
2) let's just look at the chronology
I) Starmer (but no one else in Leadership) talks occasionally over last 2 years about "exact same benefits" 6 tests
ii) privately, @BarryGardiner describes them as nonsense
@BarryGardiner 3) iii) in run up to conference, probably because they know there is a huge influx of CLP motions asking for an early vote, Corbyn & others start talking about the 6 tests really for the first time.
Read 13 tweets
Sep 26, 2018
1) Great article on why #Brexit is insoluble
We can rail about respecting the vote, the EU being stubborn,May being incompetent etc all day long. The fact is it cannot be negotiated successfully, and anyone who believes otherwise is mistaken
#Lab18

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09…
2) reasons are very simple, and always have been. The deal that was promised & any feasible deal are so far apart as to be unrecognisable

Either Brexit will be so painful that it will destroy the party who implements or so meaningless that it would be embarrassing to implement
3) half the country do not want Brexit, the other half (apart from the hardcore) voted for the pain free, cake & eat it easy brexit that was promised.

There is *no* feasible Brexit that would gain a majority in the UK & non possible within the EU & UKs red lines
Read 4 tweets

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